Protecting a puppy without vaccines
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This topic contains 18 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Anonymous 4 years, 10 months ago.
December 14, 2012 at 4:45 pm #5036
Hi Dr. Jeff,
You were recommended by someone on an email list I belong to as someone to consult regarding vaccinations. I’d love to learn from your expertise about alternative options.
We are about to get a new puppy (3/4 golden and 1/4 border collie) and I’m leaning toward skipping vaccinations altogether. We vaccinated our two previous goldens — our girl had all the regular shots and our boy had a modified protocol (but both had early vacs at 5 weeks of age by the breeder). We did not do shots after puppy shots, except rabies for our boy, as required to be a therapy dog. We fed them a raw diet most of their lives and used holistic vets. They were healthy overall, but they still had some issues. Our boy struggled with itchy skin his whole life and died from lymphoma. I am now convinced that vaccines played a role.
Unfortunately there is currently an outbreak of parvo virus in our area and as afraid as I am to vaccinate my new pup, I’m also afraid NOT to! I talked to a very helpful guy at Amber Technologies (makers of Parvaid) and he suggested boosting our puppy’s immune system with their product called Vibactra Plus for 30 days. http://ambertech.com/store#!/~/product/id=8398897
I’m also considering nosodes, but have heard they can cause problems, too. Is that true?
Should I pursue one of these options or just do nothing except a healthy raw diet? I just want to do what’s best for this puppy so that he is as healthy as possible!
Also, if I skip vaccines completely, how long to I need to keep my puppy away from other dogs and parks?
Thanks so much!
EllenDecember 17, 2012 at 11:30 am #5056
Thanks so much for your message Ellen.
My first and foremost question about protection from infectious diseases is whether you are working with an experienced homeopathic (or other) vet?
You are absolutely correct about nosodes. Used improperly, they can cause problems.
I would NOT consider your second option (of doing nothing).
If you opt to do nothing (which I don’t advise), the answer to how long to minimize exposure to other dogs (and potentially Parvo) has to be individualized to your dog’s situation, e.g. did the dam pass on maternal antibodies, are there any [url=https://www.homevet.com/component/k2/item/483]common but abnormal[/url] early warning signs in your new pup (clues to an unhealthy immune system), severity of the Parvo epidemic, etc.
I look forward to your reply. I know that other pet owners have the same questions and I appreciate your asking them here.
Dr. JeffDecember 22, 2012 at 4:36 am #5088
Hi Dr. Jeff,
Thank you for your reply. I’m currently checking out local vets.
Can you explain how you would use nosodes? Do you give a series of several doses, like they do with vaccines? What age is best to give nosodes?
EllenDecember 22, 2012 at 8:07 am #5089
Hi again Ellen. I am not currently using nosodes for prevention in my practice.
In general they are given routinely, e.g. on a weekly or monthly basis. There are many published “protocols”.
Sorry that I can’t be of more help.
Dr. JeffDecember 22, 2012 at 12:41 pm #5090
Oh, when you mentioned working with a homeopathic vet for disease prevention, I assumed that meant nosodes. What do you do/recommend instead?
EllenDecember 22, 2012 at 4:16 pm #5091
Fantastic question Ellen.
In my opinion, the most effective method (aside from reducing exposure to sick animals and epidemics, etc.) for preventing infectious disease is by fostering a strong immune system.
This can be accomplished in many ways. I counsel my new clients to use the freshest (most vital) diet possible, maximize exercise, outside air, socialization and to minimize stressors. In addition, and extremely critical, is recognizing the early warning signs (some of which are mentioned in the link above) of internal imbalance.
Once these are discerned, the totality of the patient can be addressed homeopathically by a well-trained professional homeopathic vet.
I hope that makes sense to you. Feel free to write if I need to clarify.
Dr. JeffDecember 23, 2012 at 7:16 am #5092
I currently have 3 puppies 4.5 months of age. The were weaned onto raw and have had no vaccinations to date. This is the first time I have attempted to rear a littler with no shots and I must admit it makes me very nervous. Because I show my dogs and take then out and about regularly, I’m very frightened that they may get ill. I have taken many precautions (ie not allowing them to potty where other dogs go and carrying them in/out of the show building) to not bombard their systems yet expose gradually.
The next puppy to leave will sometimes visit a place that is rampant with parvo so we want to ensure the puppy is protected via natural immunity or nosodes. We have been in touch with a Dr. a couple hrs from where I’m located. She has agreed to give nosodes in place of vaccination over a lengthy period of time but has indicated there have been no studies on the effectiveness of nosodes for disease prevention. She also informed that she gives her own dog the first round of puppy shots. Ultimately I’m looking for someone to provide guidance and support.December 23, 2012 at 8:31 am #5093
Excellent point about gradual exposure. This indeed is the best way for the pups to develop natural titers.
However, since one of the pups will have a high level of exposure, consider running titers and starting preventative treatment early. Nosodes can indeed also be more useful in situations like this.
Dr. JeffDecember 31, 2012 at 8:03 am #5118
Thank you for your response! What are the side effects of nosodes? Would you recommend them to the puppies that go to shows regularly as well? Is the risk of becoming severely ill minimized after a certain age?December 31, 2012 at 3:02 pm #5119
No side-effects of nosodes per se. Rote repetition of any remedy however (nosodes need to be repeated on a schedule to possibly confer protection) can bring out other symptoms that may be lurking beneath the surface. There also is the remote possibility, if the individual is sensitive to the nosode and/or it is repeated often enough, of some transient “proving” symptoms associated with the specific nosode.
I personally prefer to treat on an individual basis vs. using a protocol (of any kind).
The risk of infection reduces as the immune system matures (which it usually is by 1 year). However if the exposure to the infectious agent is great enough this can overwhelm almost any immune system (at any age).
My bottom line message is to promote the best overall health of your puppies to maximize immune protection. It is best to work with a trained vet homeopathy to learn more about all of your options.
Have a happy and healthy New Year.
Dr. JeffDecember 31, 2012 at 4:08 pm #5121
It took us a long time to develop a plan to raise dogs naturally and vaccine-free, but thanks to terrific natural rearing mentors and holistic vets, it became a reality. Dogs raised naturally with emphasis on building the immune system are so much more resistant to illness! Some items critical to the system we use: raw diet, K9 Puppy Gold (colustrum, probiotics, essential amino acids), Parvaid, colloidal silver, Wrm Clear, and other tinctures, herbs, and detoxifiers as needed.December 31, 2012 at 5:29 pm #5122
This is a very helpful discussion. Thanks, Dr. Jeff and everyone for contributing. Keep those suggestions coming!
Another question, since titers were mentioned… Will an unvaccinated dog show titers when tested? I will need to show proof of immunity to do therapy work.
EllenJune 11, 2013 at 3:34 am #6210
Another great question Ellen. The answer depends both on natural exposure (the more exposure to other dogs, especially those that have been recently vaccinated, the greater the likelihood of a titer), and overall health status of your pup.
Dr. JeffJune 12, 2013 at 10:33 am #6223
Thanks, Dr. Jeff!
EllenAugust 20, 2013 at 10:26 pm #6606
Doctor, can you please expound on titers?
One note on vaccinations, my family’s longest living cat only had a few vaccinations early on, then had zero after that. He lived to be 25-26 years old so for me the proof is in the pudding. I personally will not vaccinate my Siberian kitten, as she already received two rounds before I bought her. Besides, she is a indoor cat, and can only be exposed to what we bring in. I believe in keeping the immune system strong through proper nutrition, herbs and detoxing on a regular basis. Here is a product I believe is one of the best for detoxifying heavy metals and other toxic xenobiotics out of your pet, which is one of the main causes to disease. The human formula has a 1 million double blind placebo controlled study proving it effectiveness from all toxic metals without any side effects.
http://www.detoxmetals.com/products/HMD4PETS-%252d-2oz-%2860ml%29.html This is what she will get yearly.August 21, 2013 at 12:34 am #6608
Thanks for asking about titers. It’s a very timely question. One of my breeder clients and I just discussed this yesterday. Basically, titers only test for antibody production against some sort of pathogen, e.g. distemper and parvo viruses.
However, antibody production is only one part of the defenses that can be mounted by the immune system. These other (“cell mediated”) defenses are *not* as easily quantified, and are not reflected by titer results. Your pet may be protected against a specific dis-ease despite negative titers.
This is a complex subject which is addressed in more detail by a vet homeopath colleague [url=http://vitalanimal.com/fallacy-of-titer-tests/]here[/url].
Feel free to ask any other more specific questions as this can be a confusing topic, e.g. Lyme tests are titers yet most vets consider a (+) test to be a bad thing equating to Lyme disease.
Dr. JeffAugust 24, 2013 at 12:16 pm #6627
I do have some questions, but I shall start with this one. First I am a big believer in addressing the underlying causes to disease. If the animal is looked at from different angles such as exposure to toxic metals and chemicals through the environment, nutritional deficiencies, weak immune system due to other issues mentioned and more, genetic susceptibility to certain diseases, or should I say, genetic expression to certain toxins, or influences such as microbes, fungal, bacterial etc based upon the unique genetics of the animal. Other than looking at those things, what do you recommend to preventing diseases when exposed, other than vaccinations? How do titers play into this equation?September 11, 2013 at 11:46 am #6728
Titers are only one small part of this gestalt. They don’t really even tell you if your pet is protected against the dis-ease in question.
Titers only measure one small fraction of the immune response. In my experience, treating for total body energetic balance (health) is more important.
This [url=http://vitalanimal.com/fallacy-of-titer-tests/]article[/url] about the fallacy of titers may be helpful.
Dr. JeffNovember 10, 2014 at 1:19 pm #8560
Well, if you want to see you puppy healthy without vaccination then you should keep him neat and clean, to secure your puppy from 1000s of harmful diseases you need to use Dermagic [url=http://dermagic.com.au/]Dog Allergy Shampoo[/url], which will protect your dog from different germs and viruses.
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