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drjeff1

help for epileptic dog dx with Lyme =:0

This topic contains 5 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Dr. Jeff Feinman 14 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #1833

    Anonymous

    My 8yo neut dog has had seizures since he was 4yo (ideopathic epilepsy) and is on Pb/Kbr. Have never had him tested for Lyme and never had the vax (we titer incidentally instead of vax and he is on raw diet). Went to vet for yearly heartworm test and she included test for Lyme (SNAP test). He is neg for Erhlichia but medium (blue) positive for Lyme. I am so upset because if he has to have the antibiotics it could kill his liver as he is on Pb 😥 I called my holistic vet and she said not to be concerned as he has no symptoms and she only does the Western Blot test not the SNAP as she said most dogs would show up positive on the SNAP. Trouble is my other vet is saying maybe the seizures are result of Lyme. BUT surely if he was having seizures for 4 years from Lyme by now he would have other symptoms and be a very sick dog? I am taking in a urine sample to test for protein from kidneys tomorrow. I do have Ledum 30C and have read its good for Lyme but knowing a little about homeopathy would I give that without symptoms? I love my dog so much and he has been thru so much, AustralianShepherds have a hard time with epilepsy, seems like his life is hard enough, please help me 😥 Should I get the Western Blot and IFA tests? Trouble is I am on retirement and just spent $300 the other day at vet altho he is worth anything I have to spend.
    anneh

    #1834

    Dr. Jeff Feinman
    Keymaster

    [quote=anneh]would I give that without symptoms?
    [/quote]

    Hi Anneh-

    Welcome to homevet.com!!

    Don’t give the Ledum.

    Although it is a **remote** possibility that Lyme disease is the cause of your dog’s seizures, it is very, very unlikely. Neurologic Lyme disease in dogs tends to be progresssive and wouldn’t cause epilepsy without other signs (as someone who suffered from neurologic Lyme disease I can tell you how sick you get from it).

    Ledum is indicated for Lyme (or any other disease) depending on the symptoms. Although you may have read about its’ use as an acute adjunct for tick bites, I have never had a patient with Lyme disease whose symptoms called for Ledum.

    If I were you, I would concentrate more on working with your holistic vet to reduce the doses of phenobarb and potassium bromide. These are the real dangers to your dog’s long-term health. Dimethylglycine, Coenzyme Q-10, omega 3 fatty acids and other antioxidants are very important adjuncts to anticonvulsant therapy which will help lower the seizure threshold (and thereby allow lowering of the drug doses).

    If bloodwork already reveals elevated liver enzymes then a supplement like Thistlerex (milk thistle complex) is extremely helpful (along with lowering the pheno).

    Good luck and keep us posted.

    Dr. Jeff

    #1837

    Anonymous

    Thanks Dr Jeff for responding, I am so grateful. Thanks for confirming about the Ledum. Do you think I should get the Western Blot etc to confirm if he has LYme? I did just talk to someone who had a similar situation, her dog ws not symptomatic, he was treated but then showed up recently with Lyme flareup so they had to do it all over. Seems to me if there are no symptoms you are not really treating it as its not “flaring” in the body and there is nothing to treat. Being a spiroquette (sp) its hidden and not treatable unless it comes out of hiding? Thanks again. We do work on lowering the meds but unfortunately he is a difficult case, a clusterer also and requires rectal valium when he has his first seizure to prevent clusters. Neurologist has recommended adding neurontin. FRankly other than the CoQ10 I am using the supplementation you mention. Currently our holistic vet has him just started on some chinese herbs that may help. Thanks again
    anneh [quote=drjeff][quote=anneh]would I give that without symptoms?
    [/quote]

    Hi Anneh-

    Welcome to homevet.com!!

    Don’t give the Ledum.

    Although it is a **remote** possibility that Lyme disease is the cause of your dog’s seizures, it is very, very unlikely. Neurologic Lyme disease in dogs tends to be progresssive and wouldn’t cause epilepsy without other signs (as someone who suffered from neurologic Lyme disease I can tell you how sick you get from it).

    Ledum is indicated for Lyme (or any other disease) depending on the symptoms. Although you may have read about its’ use as an acute adjunct for tick bites, I have never had a patient with Lyme disease whose symptoms called for Ledum.

    If I were you, I would concentrate more on working with your holistic vet to reduce the doses of phenobarb and potassium bromide. These are the real dangers to your dog’s long-term health. Dimethylglycine, Coenzyme Q-10, omega 3 fatty acids and other antioxidants are very important adjuncts to anticonvulsant therapy which will help lower the seizure threshold (and thereby allow lowering of the drug doses).

    If bloodwork already reveals elevated liver enzymes then a supplement like Thistlerex (milk thistle complex) is extremely helpful (along with lowering the pheno).

    Good luck and keep us posted.

    Dr. Jeff[/quote] 😆

    #1842

    Dr. Jeff Feinman
    Keymaster

    [quote=anneh]Do you think I should get the Western Blot etc to confirm if he has LYme?
    [/quote]

    Good morning Anneh-

    Athough the Western Blot (WB) can differentiate natural Lyme exposure from vaccination, it does not confirm Lyme Disease. Even if the WB reveals bands (proteins) typical of the Borrelia this does not=disease.

    I commonly use th flu analogy with my clients. If you visit your MD in the midst of flu season for a general, wellness checkup and s/he did bloodwork looking for “The Flu”, it will commonly come up positive (whether a straight titer or WB). This doesn’t mean that you have the flu. It just means that your immune system has been exposed (as most of us are during flu season and as most dogs are to Lyme disease in endemic areas) and is doing its’ job.

    So *my* answer to your query about the WB is… If you really want to get as much information about the situation as possible, and money is no object, then definitely have a WB performed. If not, don’t bother.

    Also, realize that the technique is somewhat delicate and that you may get more accurate and helpful results having the test performed at certain Universities , e.g. Cornell, rather than your vet’s local lab.

    Here is an excellent (detailed) article about the WB (in people):
    [url]http://www.lymenet.de/labtests/brenner.htm[/url]

    Good luck.

    #1850

    Anonymous

    Thank you again for your kindness and the great info, will not spend money on WB under the circumstances. His urinalysis came back great! Probably due to his raw diet ;_) In June he is due for his 6month chem screen and will get it done and see if all looks well there also. Thanks for the encouragement. Someone told me to use Colloidial Silver for him, what do you think? How about fresh garlic, I usually give him a crushed clove several times a week in the summer and once a week in winter, thinking of giving it everyday for a couple of months to help his immune system and fight bacteria? Thank you for your expertise.
    anneh
    [quote=drjeff][quote=anneh]Do you think I should get the Western Blot etc to confirm if he has LYme?
    [/quote]

    Good morning Anneh-

    Athough the Western Blot (WB) can differentiate natural Lyme exposure from vaccination, it does not confirm Lyme Disease. Even if the WB reveals bands (proteins) typical of the Borrelia this does not=disease.

    I commonly use th flu analogy with my clients. If you visit your MD in the midst of flu season for a general, wellness checkup and s/he did bloodwork looking for “The Flu”, it will commonly come up positive (whether a straight titer or WB). This doesn’t mean that you have the flu. It just means that your immune system has been exposed (as most of us are during flu season and as most dogs are to Lyme disease in endemic areas) and is doing its’ job.

    So *my* answer to your query about the WB is… If you really want to get as much information about the situation as possible, and money is no object, then definitely have a WB performed. If not, don’t bother.

    Also, realize that the technique is somewhat delicate and that you may get more accurate and helpful results having the test performed at certain Universities , e.g. Cornell, rather than your vet’s local lab.

    Here is an excellent (detailed) article about the WB (in people):
    [url]http://www.lymenet.de/labtests/brenner.htm[/url]

    Good luck.[/quote] 😆

    #1852

    Dr. Jeff Feinman
    Keymaster

    [quote=anneh] Someone told me to use Colloidial Silver for him, what do you think? How about fresh garlic, I usually give him a crushed clove several times a week in the summer and once a week in winter, thinking of giving it everyday for a couple of months to help his immune system
    [/quote]

    Good morning Anneh-

    I don’t recommend the use of Colloidal Silver (CS). This is a product which some people use for everything but really has no good indications. It can also be harmful.

    Your best bet is to foster a strong immune system through diet (which you’re doing), avoidance of chemicals and vaccinations, specific nutritional supplements (like garlic but not CS), and homeopathy.

    I’ve got a crazy busy morning with clients so unfortunately I don’t have time to include more detailed info. Feel free to ask any other specific questions that arise.

    Good luck.

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